World Suicide Prevention Week started on Monday. Today, September 10th, is World Sucide Prevention Day.
Most of you know I do voluntary work with Lifeline Australia, a telephone crisis line. Almost everyone who rings those lines with thoughts of suicide has at least a degree of ambivalence. I, and all the other volunteers, will work on that ambivalence to keep the caller safe for the moment/the day and to help them see and consider other options. Lifeline believes that suicide is often preventable and that the start of the journey to safety can be only a phone call away. It is often a long and painful journey but should never ever be one that people feel condemned to walk alone.
Here in Australia suicide is still the leading cause of death for people aged under 44. More people die from suicide each year than are killed on the roads. Sadly the numbers of people we lose to suicide are rising again. Which, given that I suspect suicide is under reported, is scary.
In 2011 Lifeline began national suicide prevention walks - 'Out of the Shadows and into the Light'. Symbolically, the walks begin before dawn and continue into the growing light. It remembers those lost and those bereaved by suicide, with an addition focus on raising awareness. Some centres walk later in the day to attract more participants, but I am glad that mine doesn't. The symbolism of starting the walk in the dark and progressing into the light of a new day means a lot to me.
I don't think that all suicide is wrong. However, it is such a final decision that I hope it is not the first option considered or tried. And, as a solution to a temporary problem, I do think it is wrong. It is always a tragedy. A tragedy for the person who had, or believed they had, no other options and a tragedy for those they leave behind. And the ripples from that tragedy encompass a lot of people.
I spend time in dark places myself. I have, and probably will again, considered suicide, and have come very close to taking that final step. It seemed at the time to not only be the logical way to stop my emotional and mental pain but that it would also be better (and a relief) for the people I loved if they no longer had to deal with/put up with me. I have heard people dismiss suicide as a selfish act, but I think it is much more often an expression of intolerable physical, mental and/or emotional pain. And an expression of the fatigue that the constant battle creates. As an aside, many of the people making the selfish claim appear to be angry that something has been taken away from them. Who is wearing the selfish hat now?
Neither do I think it a cowardly decision. People chose to end their lives for a variety of reasons. I suspect that depression and loneliness are common triggers. Depression is an exhausting soul sucker and a powerful and convincing liar. And in cahoots with so many other negatives to abolish hope.
I couldn't attend the first walk, but have gone on the subsequent walks. Which saw me heading off before dawn this morning. The dread disease means that I am not walking easily or well at the moment - but I didn't care. The issue is much more important than I am. So I walked. Slowly, at the back of the pack. Stopping to take photos.
This year we again started from our National War Memorial and did a loop down Anzac Parade towards Lake Burley Griffin and back to the War Memorial. Our Parliament House is directly opposite on the other side of the lake.
There were brief speeches - drowned by the cacophony of a flock of sulphur crested cockatoos. For the first time, some of the names of those lost were read out - which I found moving. No longer nameless, but identified and missed...
Come walk with me, through the cool and cloudy dawn, into the light of a new day.
RU OK day is also celebrated on World Suicide Prevention Day. A question we should be asking family, friends and colleagues every day.
Most of you know I do voluntary work with Lifeline Australia, a telephone crisis line. Almost everyone who rings those lines with thoughts of suicide has at least a degree of ambivalence. I, and all the other volunteers, will work on that ambivalence to keep the caller safe for the moment/the day and to help them see and consider other options. Lifeline believes that suicide is often preventable and that the start of the journey to safety can be only a phone call away. It is often a long and painful journey but should never ever be one that people feel condemned to walk alone.
Here in Australia suicide is still the leading cause of death for people aged under 44. More people die from suicide each year than are killed on the roads. Sadly the numbers of people we lose to suicide are rising again. Which, given that I suspect suicide is under reported, is scary.
In 2011 Lifeline began national suicide prevention walks - 'Out of the Shadows and into the Light'. Symbolically, the walks begin before dawn and continue into the growing light. It remembers those lost and those bereaved by suicide, with an addition focus on raising awareness. Some centres walk later in the day to attract more participants, but I am glad that mine doesn't. The symbolism of starting the walk in the dark and progressing into the light of a new day means a lot to me.
I don't think that all suicide is wrong. However, it is such a final decision that I hope it is not the first option considered or tried. And, as a solution to a temporary problem, I do think it is wrong. It is always a tragedy. A tragedy for the person who had, or believed they had, no other options and a tragedy for those they leave behind. And the ripples from that tragedy encompass a lot of people.
I spend time in dark places myself. I have, and probably will again, considered suicide, and have come very close to taking that final step. It seemed at the time to not only be the logical way to stop my emotional and mental pain but that it would also be better (and a relief) for the people I loved if they no longer had to deal with/put up with me. I have heard people dismiss suicide as a selfish act, but I think it is much more often an expression of intolerable physical, mental and/or emotional pain. And an expression of the fatigue that the constant battle creates. As an aside, many of the people making the selfish claim appear to be angry that something has been taken away from them. Who is wearing the selfish hat now?
Neither do I think it a cowardly decision. People chose to end their lives for a variety of reasons. I suspect that depression and loneliness are common triggers. Depression is an exhausting soul sucker and a powerful and convincing liar. And in cahoots with so many other negatives to abolish hope.
I couldn't attend the first walk, but have gone on the subsequent walks. Which saw me heading off before dawn this morning. The dread disease means that I am not walking easily or well at the moment - but I didn't care. The issue is much more important than I am. So I walked. Slowly, at the back of the pack. Stopping to take photos.
This year we again started from our National War Memorial and did a loop down Anzac Parade towards Lake Burley Griffin and back to the War Memorial. Our Parliament House is directly opposite on the other side of the lake.
There were brief speeches - drowned by the cacophony of a flock of sulphur crested cockatoos. For the first time, some of the names of those lost were read out - which I found moving. No longer nameless, but identified and missed...
Come walk with me, through the cool and cloudy dawn, into the light of a new day.
RU OK day is also celebrated on World Suicide Prevention Day. A question we should be asking family, friends and colleagues every day.
Some numbers which may be useful for Australian readers include:
Lifeline 1311 14
Beyond Blue
Suicide Call Back Service 
Such an important thing you do here, EC, and share with those of us who are not on that walk with you. I send you my love and appreciation for all that you do.
ReplyDeleteDJan: Thank you.
DeleteThank you for making the effort to walk and of course the ongoing efforts with Lifeline.
ReplyDeletekylie: Lifeline has become a very big part of my life.
DeleteIt's not the same thing at all, but I did my own walk this morning, stumbling from the shadows of the bedroom to the lighter lounge room out to the lighted front porch to let the cat out. Again to let the cat in. Yet again to let the cat out...and in.
ReplyDeleteI think of you sometimes with regards to the work you do at Lifeline, wondering how on earth anyone can cope with the sadness of those that call in day after day, all day long. You can say it isn't all day, just a few hours on shift, but I know the sadness wouldn't leave you just because you've clocked out. I know that you are one of the strongest women I know, to do this and continue doing this.
River: I get a great deal more from my volunteering than I give. Yes there is sadness, and pain. There is also awe and admiration at so many of the callers, facing things which would have me velcroed to the carpet under the bed, refusing to come out.
DeleteThank you!!
ReplyDeletefishducky. And you.
DeleteI admire you greatly for doing such good work for your community. I was just reading statistics on suicides here in the US – the last year reported was 2013. There were 41,149 suicides in the US in 2013, or one every 12.8 minutes (or 12.6 suicides per 100,000 people but 29.5 suicides per 100,000 people for US veterans - twice the national average.) The American Indian population has a rate of suicide three times the national average and some Indian reservations are up to 10 times the average, where it is a major reason of deaths for American Indians youth between 10 and 14 years old. I don’t think the general public knows all these terrible statistics. Your week of suicide prevention may help someone to understand the signs and prevent a loved one to take their life. Your work is very important.
ReplyDeleteVagabonde: Our veterans also suicide at higher than the national average. As do our indigenous population. And farmers. Rural dwellers are highly at risk.
DeleteThere is a crying need for support. Lots and lots of support. And no easy answers.
I love that you do this. The subject of suicide is sadly, still taboo. I have only touched lightly on the subject on my own blog even though I came very close to suicide. When anyone is in that dark place it takes a lot of courage to reach out. I am glad that you are there are the other end of the phone.
ReplyDeleteI will add to your list.
In Canada call:
1-800-273-TALK (8255)
Birdie: Thank you for the Canadian number.
DeleteAnd yes, suicide is still hidden (where it can grow and fester) but we are getting better at bringing it to the light. A start has been made.
The statistics are harrowing but as the other person said probably not widely known. I had a distant cousin who committed suicide in her late thirties fifteen years ago and her family,especially her grandmother, was not understanding at all. I'm glad to know you do this important work.
ReplyDeletee: So many families have been touched by this tragedy. And sadly if a family member has died by suicide, the likelihood of other family members taking the same path increases dramatically.
DeleteNo easy answers either.
I greatly admire what you do with Lifeline, and also that you 'walk the talk' and do this each year. The world badly needs you and people like you, EC.
ReplyDeleteAlexia: It was a fairly wobbly walk this morning - but I am so glad I did it. And even gladder that each year there are more of us in the early light...
DeleteI saw somewhere someone mention what if you ask someone if they are ok and the answer is no. Are you prepared for that? Clearly you would be EC, but the rest of us? Just worth thinking about.
ReplyDeleteAndrew: There are as many answers as there are individuals who are not all right. First and foremost though is to LISTEN. To hear their pain, and not minimise and trivialise it with platitudes like 'it will be all right'...
DeleteAnd, unless their life is in imminent danger, don't step in and take the solution away from them...
It is a dreadfully sad situation. I had a friend who committed suicide several years ago and the general reaction from friends was total anger that he did that to his family who are still dealing with the aftermath. But his family realized long ago that his depression was a very real illness and they forgave him. Forgiving themselves for not stopping his suicide took and is taking a lot longer. Thankfully there are people such as yourself who are standing up and taking action. Bless you for it.
ReplyDeleteDeniseinVA: It is sad. And bad. And frightening. And the people left behind often carry the pain and the guilt (justly or not) forever.
DeleteBless you for this work that you are so good at
ReplyDeleteCloudia: Learning all the time. Each and every shift.
DeleteHi EC! Thank you for doing this crucial work. Often people just need to hear a friendly voice. Most of us have times of depression and can well have empathy for those who go to that next level and do something drastic in the false belief that there is no hope. I'm a believe in hope, but when you're in a dark place, I can see why some take that route. But there are often unheard cries for help.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen this blog post? Yolanda sent it to me. Perhaps you'd know a step to take as it seems like a cry for help.
https://cuthemap.wordpress.com/2015/09/09/going-through-a-hard-time-now/
So much suffering in our world. Thanks for taking us on that walk with you.
Denise :-)
Denise Covey: That is a very scary post - and I have sent you an email. She is not in a safe place. Not at all. I hope she reaches out further - to someone close by who can support her through this.
DeleteMuch admiration and thanks for your contribution to Lifeline. It is a very great thing that you do.
ReplyDeleteOnce, years ago, I was asked, "are you alright". When I told them "no, I'm not. I feel lost and alone", they didn't know how to respond and slowly edged away. They were not "Lifeliners", nor anyone equipped to know how to deal with depression and potential suicides. Nor were there any organisations dedicated to helping. So, a big thank you...
And, a huge, heartfelt congratulations for wining the first challenge. It comes as no surprise to me. Well done EC. Take a humble bow :)
Vicki: Sadly there are not enough people/places/organisations to help. We are getting better, but have a long way to go.
DeleteAnd I can't tell you how angry I get at people who ask the question, and run away from the answer...
I am so pleased that you survived. And thrived.
Hugs.
You brought me to tears with this, EC. You've described so well the feelings behind suicidal thoughts as expressed to us by our daughter years ago. I am so sorry you have/had these as well. They are so far from being selfish thoughts - if only more people understood that. You are helping spread that message. I admire your courage to walk when it is not easy to do so. Hugs and thank you.
ReplyDeletejenny_o: I am so very glad that your daughter found the light. Not a quick journey, not an easy one either. And hugs back to you.
DeleteBless you. A kind and comforting voice on the other end of the phone call can mean so much.
ReplyDeleteStarting Over, Accepting Changes - Maybe: Thank you. I hope so. Though sometimes more than words are needed.
DeleteThank you for this post. And thank you for being one of the people who help the many people who are depressed or lonely. I have on ocassion phoned Lifeline here in NZ, not because I was suicidal, but just to have a talk with someone who doesn't know me and will not judge me. I struggle with depression most of the time (up and down, up and down), and I feel no shame or guilt about that; it's just the way I am. My heart goes out to those who are bereaved by suicide. It must be very,very difficult to ever come to terms with this.
ReplyDeletelynners: Lifeline is a crisis line, and suicide is just one of the crises that people face. Being able to talk anonymously to people who don't judge is one of our biggest strengths. I am so glad that you feel no shame about depression - you shouldn't. And too many people do.
DeleteBeautifully written - Thank you for sharing your thoughts about suicide and for all you do volunteering: I was surprised to learn that suicide is the main killer of young in your country and wondered about mine, lifeline is such a worthwhile place to volunteer. When I read RUOK and the response I thought how often folks ask "how are you doing" and the most often reply "fine" even if we aren't fine. Speaking thoughts of suicide often seem taboo and your blog post brings the topic to the forefront and is important - the sharing of personal thoughts is so important.
ReplyDeleteLinda Starr: When I saw the figures that Vagabonde quoted for suicide in your country I was appalled. I suspect the trends are much the same in most western countries. And it makes my heart ache. Being able to speak openly has to be a step in the right direction.
DeleteI understan that you are making some really good thing with lifestyle. Sometimes everyday is not so OK.
ReplyDelete(PS. Could you put on your page the google translation .. please. So it would (maybe) easier to understand even a little better your long text)
Wish you a happy time.
orvokki: Thank you. I will try - but at one stage blogger refused to let me put in place. Fingers crossed they will this time.
Deleteorvokki: Done. If you click on the translate button at the top on the right hand side, it will allow you to select your language.
DeleteThank you so very much. I am glad that you managed. And, yes, I found it and it is easy to use.
DeleteNow I can keep track of your text a little better. However, the Google translator translates pretty funny in different languages to finnish (Finnish (suomi) is probably still so small language), but there are words I don't understand, so the translator helps me.
What a beautiful idea, walking out of the darkness and into the light... I wonder if I could start something like that around here.
ReplyDeleteYou might have been a bit wobbly whilst walking, but still you did it. You have courage, strength and compassion by the tonne EC. Thank you.
Jacquelineand...: I really like the inherent symbolism to out of the darkness and into the light too. While knowing that it isn't easy. I wonder whether you could start something similar. Worth a try.
DeleteAnd I am stubborn. (Pig-headed my father always said). Which is what kept me walking today.
Thanks you for contributing to this great work. I admire you for the support you give to these people but also it was wonerful that you i the walk an that number of people that came recently iis increasing. Hopefull people are become more aware that this is an enormous problem in the communities an people do nee help in coping.
ReplyDeleteMargaret Adamson: Thank you. It is an enormous problem - but I think that steps in the right direction are being made.
DeletePeople must get so desperate to want to even think about suicide. I personally don't understand that. Maybe I never will.
ReplyDeleteIt's must be very hard to explain why..
whiteangel: I hope you never do understand. Loneliness, grief, despair, health issues, relationship problems can all lead people to the edge. And so many other things.
DeleteDear EC
ReplyDeleteA very thought provoking and important cause. I know someone who was a teenager who committed suicide and that death affected me more than the death of a family member. It is so important to talk. It may make that crucial difference to someone.
Best wishes
Ellie
Ellie Foster: Things hidden in dark corners fester and grow. I firmly believe that talking helps.
DeleteThank you.
Oh E.C., such a moving post. Words fail me as my eyes grow misty. What you and others are doing is a wonderful thing. That hand that you stretch out - that moment you take to listen - means the world to those who feel no one cares anymore. Bless you!
ReplyDeleteMason Canyon: Thank you. All over the world people are reaching out. Which is wonderful.
DeleteWell done.
ReplyDeleteJ Cosmo Newbery: Thank you.
DeleteI love the sense of community and inclusiveness of the walk. Wonderful idea.
ReplyDeletelibrarygirl: I loved the community feel. People walked by themselves, with family, with friends - and none of us were alone.
DeleteThis was an excellent and honest post. Thank you for sharing.
ReplyDeletemshatch: Thank you.
DeleteYour strength of character and stamina are a source of amazement to me... and a lifeline as well. Depression is indeed a soul sucker. The continuous drain being so much worse than a temporary setback in one's life. For those without any family to consider, I imagine it would be almost impossible to resist the lure to end it. At some point, you can't come up with a positive reason to stay and keep breathing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and double thank you for all the work you do to try and provide an anchor to those in need.
ReplyDeleteRiver Fairchild: Too many of us have heard (and listened) to the lies that depression tells. Such a convincing liar too... Hugs.
DeleteGreat thoughts and work you are doing. Greetings and best wishes!
ReplyDeleteBlogoratti: Fortunately there are a lot of us doing this work - world wide. Which is wonderful.
Deletekudos for your support
ReplyDeleteAuthor R. Mac Wheeler: Thank you. I get more than I give.
DeleteLovely shots and such a good cause. Thank you for sharing your story.
ReplyDeleteladyfi: My story, and lots of other people's story too.
DeleteThanks for all that.
ReplyDeleteJono: Thanks.
DeleteGoosebumps here. I'm with you in heart and spirit from across the globe. One month until I Chair Out of the Darkness Chico.
ReplyDeleteLove and gratitude to you.
Rawknrobyn: I will be cheering your on during your walk too. Loudly.
DeleteOh EC, such sadness, such pervasive sadness and yet such hope. Your images of the walk 'out of the shadows and into the light' are so evocative. When looking at them I find an intense symbolism, not only in the emerging light but also in the emerging clarity of the images. I know this has more to do with lighting conditions and shutter speed but I find the image of the shakiness and lack of clarity that gradually becomes stronger and clearer to be an incredibly empowering symbolism. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteKim: Thank you. You are right that the shakiness of the early images is a technical issue - but I kept them just because of the symbolism you identified. Shaky beginning, building to stability.
DeleteThank you for the work that you do. And I too think that just being so worn down that there are no options is a place that brings you to think of suicide. I fought a lot with depression and I found that if I tld myself it was alright just to be sad, it helped. Like I wasn't being so hard on myself. I also plan something positive in the future, like a movie to look forward to or a small trip. That helped.
ReplyDeleteSonya Ann: I wonder why it is that so many of us don't cut ourselves any slack and are harder on ourselves than anyone else? Love you allowing yourself to be sad. And giving yourself something to look forward to as well. Small things - which are huge.
DeleteIt is wonderful you answer the phone lines. Many times people just need someone to talk to, about all they are going through. Being in the mental system for 2 and a half decades, while in it, the life was so dire, so dark, empty and depressing, controlled, lonely, meaningless, abusive, boring, that I contemplated and tried suicide several times. As did many people I knew. I believe I had 9 friends who killed themselves, while in that dark system. I'm glad I got out. When the "help" provides a dark and abusive future, well, its a little difficult for me to consider recommending it. I hope its different elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteStrayer: I am so glad that you escaped that dark system. And have no doubt that some days it haunts you still.
DeleteI'm so glad that organization has you for this most valuable work. And you have a better understanding of how to help them, having gone through depression yourself.
ReplyDeleteI've lost a couple of friends to suicide. It's difficult to come to terms with when it happens.
So glad you could go on the walk -
Lynn: Going on the Out of the Shadows Walk is a personal committment I have made to myself. And I don't regret it. At all.
DeleteKudos to you, EC, and others who volunteer their time. My daughter with the chronic illness who was also bullied at the time considered it when she was younger and I had to deal with making her see suicide wasn't the solution. So many young people don't have anyone to rely on. The internet wasn't prolific then, for which I'm grateful. My daughter even called a crisis line but didn't get any help via that as the person there wasn't well trained. Thank heavens I was there and recognized the signs and she and I had kept the communication lines open. PS - I hope you feel better soon, too.
ReplyDeleteD.G Hudson: I am sorry that your daughter's experience of a crisis line wasn't positive - and so glad that she had you. Training is an integral part of Lifeline, and I am grateful for it.
DeleteI like the way your photos progress from blurry to clear. Just like someone emerging from the shadows.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work EC, I'm sure Lifeline has helped many people.
Karen: As Kim identified, the blurriness of the early images is due to light and shutter speed, but I also liked the symbolism. So I retained images I would ordinarily either not attempt or junk.
DeleteSuch an important subject and I applaud your honesty in regards to your personal journey and well thought out opinion on the truth of what suicide is. I don't have your courage, so I'm grateful for you. especially your email last night regarding EB's declaration. Suicide is almost a family affliction as I need two hands and both feet to count the number of deaths in my own family from suicide. It is so much more than folks know or understand, it is deeper, and for me, a haunting legacy. And much harder to overcome or deal with for more reason than I can account for here. Just know you have my gratitude for your efforts and for sharing the subject here.
ReplyDeleteYolanda Renee: I am so sorry that you have that family connection. Heartbreaking and scary. And as you say, haunting.
DeleteI hope you find peace. And safety.
What a beautiful idea for a walk with equally great pictures (I like how they go from dark to light, just as you said that works perfectly for the idea). As someone who suffers from depression and has gotten close to ending it a few times, I applaud you and thank you for your service with the phone line. I've been helped out of dark places by folks like you and just... know that you're absolutely appreciated :)
ReplyDeleteMadilyn Quinn: Thank you for sharing a little of your journey. I am so very glad that the crisis lines have helped you.
DeleteThank you so much for doing what you do, for your honesty here and for your walk. I lost a loved one earlier this year to suicide. His pain superceded any hope but I think if he had spoken to someone like you he may have made a different decision. Your post and your pictures touch my heart.
ReplyDelete(I've been without internet over a week, so haven't visited. Now going to visit grandkids but will resume full force next week.)
Myrna R.: I am so sorry for your loss. Even knowing why, it still hurts. Hugs.
DeleteThis is immensely important, what you do to help people considering suicide. I know depression and the feeling that suicide was the only solution too well for comfort. If your phone volunteering prevented even one person from making that final step, it would be a great victory for humanity. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteOlga Godim: I hope that we can help. I believe that we do, which keeps me coming back. I hope you are in a better place now - and thank you.
DeleteThanks EC.
ReplyDeleteBob Bushell: Thank you too. And thank you for the beauty with which you brighten many of my days.
DeleteIt's sad when you reach that time that you can no longer see a reason to live but it will pass all you have to do is hang on but sometimes that is impossible, I admire you for what do, it takes a strong mind to deal with other peoples problems and to talk them around to just wait and hope.
ReplyDeleteMerle.......
Merlesworld: It is many of our callers I admire. Dealing with things which would have me velcroed to the carpet under the bed refusing to come out. And they keep on keeping on...
DeleteThank you for taking us on this most important walk with you, S.
ReplyDeleteI pray for all of those considering suicide that they find their way into the "LIGHT." xxx
My Inner Chick: I hope so too. I really hope so. And that the light continues to shine on them.
DeleteI admire your courage to do this (answering the phone lines). I can only imagine how heart wrenching it is to talk to people who are on the edge. My brother committed suicide and I wish so badly that he had asked for help. It's been over thirty years and we still wonder why and what if.
ReplyDeleteTerri @ Coloring Outside the Lines: I am so sorry. Those unanswered questions have sharp teeth don't they?
DeleteI like the symbolism of walking out of the dark into the light.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who was there I also don't think suicide neither selfish nor cowardly. You are in a very dark place if you consider to end your own life, and it takes a lot of courage to actually follow through.
You do great work with the suicide crisis line. I comment you.
Carola Bartz: Thank you. It is work I love. It gives me hope. Even on the darkest days. People care.
DeleteLove this. I didn't catch it this year (I've been in my turtle shell) but I hope next year I'm in a place where I can tune into this day... Thank you for the work that you do :)
ReplyDeleteHBF: I hope you can too. And hope you emerge from that shell.
DeleteHi EC - well done and I'm so pleased you're highlighting ... talking and helping people through their troubles really can help; also making sure you have time your day to listen to people, give them time ...
ReplyDeleteI've seen and experienced the feelings and effect at close quarters ... just so difficult to deal with ... I've learnt since ... thank you - Hilary
Hilary Melton-Butcher: So very difficult to deal with. And something which bites...
DeleteI've seen your comments on blogs that I follow and for no apparent reason today I clicked and found this post. I was moved to say hello and recognise the efforts that you are making towards a more meaningful and happier world for all. I enjoyed following your walk today and I applaud you. With kind wishes Jane
ReplyDeleteJane: Thank you so much. I will be round to visit you shortly.
DeleteI share all your thoughts. For many years I worked for the UK equivalent, which is Samaritans, and it has been one of the great privileges of my life.
ReplyDeleteRelatively Retiring. It is a privilege isn't it? To be invited into peoples' hearts and heads...
DeleteI'm one of the people who *didn't* know you were so involved with Lifeline, so just wanted to say *THANK YOU* for the work you and your fellow volunteers do.
ReplyDeleteYou may never know how many, but you have truly saved countless lives.
I've been there, too, and to this day there is an overpass column in Newport Beach, California, with my name on it.
I agree suicide is very selfish and obviously there's no coming back, so Lifeline, and its various counterparts are a blessing to those who call - and the families who hopefully won't be left behind.
((E.C.))
Mark Koopmans: Suicide can be selfish, but I think that is rare. It can be angry too. Ditto.
DeleteThank you - and I am glad that you didn't take that final step.
I love the uplifting symbolism of starting the walk before daybreak, and walking into the light.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised you ever considered suicide yourself, but you'd probably be even more surprised to know I actually made an attempt when I was a teenager. I have always loved and appreciated life, but the dysfunction within my family was pretty awful, and I felt hopeless to do anything about it. But the truth is, I didn't really want to die; I just wanted the bad things to stop.
Anyhow, I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Thank you for what you do; you DO make a difference.
Susan: Wanting the pain to stop is the key I think. Physical, mental, emotional...
DeleteWhat you do is a very good thing. No one who honestly hasn't stood on that suicide threshold can't know the terrible pain involved. People who consider suicide are in such pain and just want the pain to stop, be it physical or mental, it does not matter.
ReplyDeleteBookie: Pain is pain. No matter where it comes from. I have found physical pain (mostly) easier to ease than mental pain, but they can both be overwhelming.
Delete“many of the people making the selfish claim appear to be angry that something has been taken away from them. Who is wearing the selfish hat now?”
ReplyDeleteThe complaint that something has been taken away from a person doesn’t necessarily mean that the person is being selfish. For example, if I complain that someone took my car, I’m stating the rather obvious fact that someone treated me unfairly by taking that which wasn’t theirs to take. If, instead, I complain that Peggy ate the last cookie, I’m being both selfish and petty. While I fully believe that suicide is sometimes a righteous act, it’s not right to simplify it as you have. For example, if a person who has a family to support kills himself because he lost his money in the stock market, then he’s abandoning his responsibility, and his family isn’t being selfish to hold it against him. If, instead, he kills himself because he has a terminal illness that will bankrupt his family while prolonging his misery, then his action is at least done with good intentions. It worries me that you’re talking this way because I don’t know but what you’re trying to justify killing yourself, and I don’t believe that you’re succeeding. Frankly, it strikes me as a rationalization rather than a reasoned argument, and I’m upset about that, and I’m worried about you.
I would need Peggy’s permission to kill myself, and since her standards would be high, it’s not likely that I will ever do it.
Snowbrush: You often pull me up short and make me reread the post and see where I could have expressed myself better. Thank you for that.
DeleteSome suicides are certainly selfish. As I think I said, I believe that most are not.
And the people I accused of wearing the selfish hat are those who label ALL suicide as selfish. Those who, for example, dismissed Robin Williams's suicide as selfish. I got the strong impression that they believed he should have stayed alive to continue to entertain them. He had lived with mental illness for a very long time, and had just been diagnosed with a debilitating physical illness as well. I could well understand that he was tired. So very tired. And could see no positives ahead. Still a tragedy. But his tragedy. His families tragedy. Onlooker's grief? Not so much.
I am glad that Peggy is your anchor. And will worrry (panic) if she should die before you.
“Those who, for example, dismissed Robin Williams's suicide as selfish.”
DeleteIf I misunderstood you, I’m glad for it. Maybe you didn’t express yourself as well as you would have liked, or maybe I failed to read you well. As for Williams, many fans seem to feel that they have a relationship with a person, and therefore have a right to expect him or her to behave in certain ways. Williams always seemed unbalanced to me, so I wasn’t overly surprised that he killed himself. While I thought he was a good actor, his standup was way too hyper as well as his role in Mort and Mindy. My dominant thought about him was that he surely could have a found a better way. Have you heard of the women who killed themselves when Valentino died?
I just wanted to say I'm really sorry if I offended you on my blog I really didn't mean to, I was talking from my perspective as I don't see many films and read very few books that's all. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteLL Cool Joe: Not offended at all. I see next to no movies, and am a musical moron.
DeleteI think that's just what I meant, if it's a subject we are not interested in then we can't relate to the post, that's all. If I were to write about music all the time, and I am a dj after all, I know it would bore the pants off most people. But i can see we both love photography, but like you occasionally I'll write a post that I know will be of limited appeal, just because its about my life, just as we all do on our blogs. :) But I truly wasn't meaning to offend anyone. :)
DeleteThere have been a few things here recently -- articles in the paper, a memorial announcement published in the obits -- to remind us of the appallingly high rate of suicide here too...
ReplyDeleteIt takes a special kind of person to do what you do, over and over again.
Ellen: Fortunately there are lots of us. Over two hundred in my centre alone. Centres across Oz. Other organisations. Which is just as well, because the need is there. Here, there and everywhere there is that need.
Deletemy best friend committed suicide a few months ago after talking about it for years. it might be an over simplification and i use it to describe several mental illnesses but in my mind, his auto pilot was extinguished.
ReplyDeletehe retired and lost his purpose. in his working days, his auto pilot was fully engaged and he didn't have time to sit around and let his mind ruminate on his perceived problems. he became unable to differentiate thoughts from facts. and thoughts are always worse than facts for depressed people.
a purpose in life and self esteem go hand in hand.
billy pilgrim: I am so sorry that you lost your friend. I believe that the reasons are as individual as the people, but having a purpose, feeling needed, connected can certainly play a part. And depression, anxiety and rather a lot of other mental illnesses are skilled and practised liars.
DeleteHe was probably in an age group in which suicide is high (https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures), and just being male was another added risk factor. My father used to threaten suicide so much that I got sick of hearing it, but he never killed himself.
DeleteGreat initiative and glad you were able to participate. You are a trooper EC.
ReplyDeletecarolincairns: There were a lot of us trooping. Which is lovely. More needed, but a lot there...
Delete"Lifeline believes that suicide is often preventable" - it is, without doubt, and so many people will have lived to see better times thanks to you and those who put the effort and care in over there, and at all such lifelines across the world. If you've been close to, or sat in that cold place, then the empathy flows, and the understanding is solid. I remember the other walks, and once again wish I had been there with you. x
ReplyDeleteAll Consuming: As I wish you had been there. Laughter, tears, and some more laughter.
Deleteexcellent point on the skilled and practiced liars. it turned out his finances and general state of affairs were no where near as bad as he had told everyone.
ReplyDeletebilly pilgrim: Or as bad as he undoubtedly believed. Sad. And bad.
DeleteIt occurs to me that all our relationships include contracts that are implied if not written. For example, when I cross the street, I trust that a motorist isn’t going to intentionally run me down, and even that’s a contract of sorts. When we get close to people, we assume that we have a contract by which they won’t assault us or abandon us for no reason, and if they do so anyway, we conclude that they had less integrity than we had imagined, and that our high estimation was unjustified.. Suicide is a type of abandonment that can bespeak either cowardice or timeliness, and it’s a nasty thing to surprise someone by killing yourself. My thought is that it should only come after a lot of serious discussion, and if the discussion is with someone who accepts suicide on principal, yet says it seems like an extreme reaction for the current situation, I would guess that they’re usually right, and that other alternatives should be tried. I know of two men who killed themselves when they neared sixty because they didn’t want to live with waning ability. I see this as a tragedy because while we lose with age, we also gain, and they denied that gain to the world.
ReplyDeleteI read an interesting story last night about Edmund Ruffin who was in his upper sixties when he fired the first shot in the American Civil War. Two months after the war ended (his side lost), he went to his study, put a rifle in mouth and pushed the trigger with a stick. The percussion cap went off but the main charge didn’t, so while his family came running toward the room upon hearing the percussion shot, he reloaded and fired again. This was his suicide note: “". . . And now with my latest writing and utterance, and with what will be near my latest breath, I here repeat and would willingly proclaim my unmitigated hatred to Yankee rule--to all political, social and business connections with Yankees, and the perfidious, malignant and vile Yankee race."
"My thought is that it should only come after a lot of serious discussion," - but that is such a rational clear proposition, and when one is in that (usually) horrific position, no such rational state is necessarily within grasp. Certainly bearing in mind the potential negative reaction they might receive. It is beyond any control often, and that is very much part of the tragedy. Society is becoming more understanding, and this helps, but a 'nasty surprise' intimates some aforethought of being 'nasty' - horrific yes, tragic, yes, and possibly preventable. Things are moving forwards, but many still leave in a despair that is - all consuming.
DeleteSnowbrush & All Consuming: Discussion implies both that everyone has someone that they can, or feel that they can, talk about things and, as All Consuming said, a rational state of mind. Often absent. On both counts. And men particularly are 'trained' to man up and bear things quietly. Which I believe causes all sorts of problems.
DeleteNo, I'm sure that not everyone has anyone they can talk to, but most do, and even those who don't still have call centers like the one you staff. There are many such places (just do a Net search), and there are also government provided services, and this means that no one is completely alone. Here, you can always go to Lane County Mental Health, and say you need to be committed or else you’re going to kill yourself, and they'll put you on a three-day evaluation hold. After that, a plan will hopefully be in place. Of course, it doesn’t always work like it should—I’ll never forget the woman whom the county evaluator didn’t take seriously, a woman who immediately walked across the street from the hospital, climbed to the top of a high rise parking garage and jumped to her death, landing on the roof of a Subway Restaurant. As for not having a rational state of mind, is that a reason for killing oneself or is it an excuse? I haven't been in every situation, so I can't say for sure, but I suspect that few of us ever get into such a state that we are literally unable to take responsibility for our actions (and might not this justification for killing oneself just as easy be used as justification for killing another person? ) Might we not then feel hopeless? Certainly. But unable to make any other choice? I would assume it’s rare, but that if a person really has tried and tried and tried, and nothing has helped, and he or she really is out of other options, then maybe suicide is a reasonable act.
DeleteSnowbrush: Our call centre is often unable to keep up with the demand. And it isn't the only one. And hospital admission is not easy either. Far too often people approach the hospital for assistance and are turned away. Or are admitted briefly and then released. In both cases some kill themselves.
DeleteAnd I don't think I meant that the people who weren't rational when they considered suicide were unable to take responsibility for their actions but that they had blind spots. Often big blind spots, and where for example, unable to realise that the doom and gloom that depression (that skilled liar) was selling, wasn't entirely true. And with that blind spot, their actions are entirely rational - to them.
PS: Loneliness, is I think the common denominator to most of the calls to the crisis centre. I think you underestimate how many people don't have, or feel they don't have (which comes to the same thing) someone to talk to.
Delete"As for not having a rational state of mind, is that a reason for killing oneself or is it an excuse?" - Blimey. People will have swings between knowing the pain that will be caused, struggling terribly with the fear of how it will hurt others, and then just as Sue says - blind spots. There's no 'excuse' needed, it's all beyond that stage. I do think this is all tricky for some people who have never been there. I have. I did swing between the two, and it was the most frightening time of my life.
Delete"(and might not this justification for killing oneself just as easy be used as justification for killing another person? )" - committing murder and trying to claim you were mentally ill and therefore did not know what you were doing does happen, and what also happens, is people who have severe mental health issues, kill others, whilst their own reality is a far cry from that which we know. It's all mental health, but once again, you're saying there's a connection between pre-meditated actions that are cruel and wrong, and those which people genuinly have no control over. It isn't rare at all. I spent a great deal of time with a close friend who has psychotic episodes and has suffered from depression all her life. She takes medication, she had had counselling, she was sometimes suicidal, and I had to sleep over with her and her then partner to make sure they both survived another day at one point. She was not committed at that time, because her condition was so changeable. She could have killed herself, or her partner, or me at any point and would not have meant harm to those she killed at all. She will have meant to die, she often said it was beyond explanation how black a place, devoid of reason she travelled to. I have seen that place. Even reaching out won't help sometimes. It's pure chance that she is still here. Her condition has improved some in the past few years, though she is far, far from being as well as both she, and her loved ones would like.
"I would assume it’s rare, but that if a person really has tried and tried and tried, and nothing has helped, and he or she really is out of other options, then maybe suicide is a reasonable act." - You're absolutely right, but it isn't rare at all.
All Consuming: Beautifully put. Thank you. I wish it was rare. I really, really wish it was.
DeleteStatistics (for what it is worth) indicate that people with mental health issues are MUCH more likely to hurt themselves than others. Which is not to say it doesn't happen, just that it is rarer than public perception thinks.
I base my opinions largely on my own experiences and reading. I don’t even know how many friends I’ve lost to suicide since families sometimes withhold the reason for death and that what looks like an accident might very well have been suicide. None of those I’ve known who killed themselves gave any evidence of being a danger to anyone else with the exception of Harry who killed his wife Yvonne and their baby (while the two were taking a bath) before killing himself. With the exception of Harry, none of those I’ve known gave evidence of being insane, and all left behind a number of people who felt guilty that they didn’t see it coming and terrible that the dead person hadn’t confided in them. Still, most people who kill themselves supposedly give indications beforehand. I’ve found this to be true, but there is a limit to what anyone can do short of putting a person in a padded cell, and you can only do that for a short while. Still, I’m left with guilt that people I knew killed themselves, and that I didn’t do more, although I did the best I could at the time. My father talked about suicide for decades but still managed to die of old age, and I feel anger toward him because children shouldn’t have to listen to that kind of thing. I think that a common reason that people kill themselves is to hurt others, but no doubt loneliness, alienation, old age, physical illness, mental illness, medical bills, and chronic pain also lead many people to suicide; and the suicide of one person sometimes leads to the deaths of others either through grief or suicide. Just last year, I had a healthy elderly neighbor who died within months of her son committing suicide, so while I have no sympathy for her son, I have a great deal for his mother who was my friend.
DeletePeople who kill other people due to insanity were often on anti-psychotic drugs and chose to go off of them, and, in my mind, this makes them responsible for their actions. If you kill someone while sane, there might be some hope for you, but if you kill someone because you’re so whacked out that you don’t know what you’re doing, then there is no hope, and you should never walk free again because even if you would safe while on drugs, there’s no guarantee that you will stay on those drugs, so you should live behind bars to insure the safety of others.
My best suicide story is of Peggy’s aunt Peggy who shot herself in the chest but missed her heart and collapsed a lung. The next time she tried, she aimed at her head, but the gun went off prematurely and left her a quadriplegic. Peggy had been the life of every gathering, and, to my knowledge, no one had ever seen her depressed. I did learn something from Peggy, namely that if I ever decide to kill myself, I would try to take redundant measures.
Snowbrush: Peggy's aunt Peggy is certainly a salutory tale. What was the time gap between her first and her second attempt? Sadly I suspect she made life much worse for herself. I can't think of anything positive about quadriplegia.
DeleteMy experience and reading doesn't lead me to think that it is commonly used as a weapon to hurt people, but I am sure it does happen.
I don't know the gap, but think it was a year or two. Both tries were in the bathroom, the first sitting in the tub and the second standing by the sink. After the second try, she hadn't the means to make a third attempt, so she proceeded to eat herself to death. My understanding is that people often do kill themselves because they feel mistreated and wish to avenge themselves.
DeleteSnowbrush: I am sure that pain to others often follows suicide, but less sure that it is one of the aims. Peggy's aunt Peggy seems to have concealed her pain well for a long time if no-one had ever seen her depressed. Two overt suicide attempts and the self abuse are scary.
DeleteThank you! I am in so much awe that you do this as a volunteer. Thank you for saving lives. Truly.
ReplyDeleteRiot Kitty: I get a great deal more out of it than I give. And have met some amazing people - other volunteers and more particularly some amazing callers (though the call is the extent of the relationship).
DeleteI remember you writing about this event last year EC. I admire your efforts and my heart aches as you describe the dark moments that can lead up to suicide. If you ever do find yourself again considering the option of suicide, I suspect that there are very many people who would want to offer you a lifeline - just as you have done through your work with the crisis hotline. Although I only know you through our blogs,EC - my admiration for you and your many talents and kind heart is very great.
ReplyDeleteSusan F.: Thank you. Rather a lot.
DeleteWhat a wonderful idea and I am sure many people that took part had special people to remember.
ReplyDeletePeople like yourself do such a wonderful job endeavouring to help those that need help so badly. I do admire you for devotion to that particular voluntary job.
Mimsie: Thank you. There are a lot of us. Which is lovely.
DeleteSuch an important question and a wonderful reminder that we should be asking people more often. So thankful that we have people like you working the hotline and doing such important work. Thanks for sharing this with us. :)
ReplyDelete~Jess
DMS ~ Jess: Thank you. I hope we do all remember to ask that question more often.
DeleteWhat a symbolic walk...I agree...it is a tragedy...it is not cowardly or selfish. It hurts so much to thin of those who felt they had no other option. I think a majority of people have considered suicide at one time or other. I know I have, but never went very far with it. I am glad you have not acted on it either my friend.
ReplyDeleteDonna@LivingFromHappiness: Thank you. I suspect you are right, and a lot of us have considered it. Hopefully more and more of us will find our path into the light again.
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