Wet and Aggressive Corella challenges Magpie

Wet and Aggressive Corella challenges Magpie

Wednesday 29 June 2016

No arguments from here...



I don't think I am alone in saying that events on the world wide stage have made me anxious and a little fearful over the last few weeks/months/years.  And often confused.  

And everywhere I look I see shouting.  Politicians, media ...


I have always loved Neil Gaiman's fiction.  However it is his non-fiction writing which elevates him to hero status in my eyes.  His latest release is non-fiction, 'The View from the Cheap Seats'Some selected quotes from Credo, one of the articles in that book, follow:


'I believe that it is impossible to kill an idea because ideas are invisible and contagious, and they move fast...' 


 'I do not believe that burning, murdering, exploding people, smashing their heads with rocks (to let the bad ideas out), drowning them or even defeating them will work to contain ideas you do not like.  Ideas spring up where you do not expect them, like weeds, and are as difficult to control'...


'....I do not have the right to kill you, maim you, hurt you or take away your liberty or property because I find your ideas threatening or insulting or downright disgusting.  You probably think some of my ideas are pretty vile too...'


 'I believe that in the battle between guns and ideas, ideas will, eventually, win. '


 I hope he is right on that point in particular.  I so hope he is right. 


The lovely dinahmow also sent me this quote, also by Gaiman. 


'What I tend to see happening more and more is people retreating into their own corners. People seem scared to get things wrong or be shouted at so they form villages in which they agree with every other member, and maybe they go out and shout at the people in the next village for fun, but there’s no interchange of ideas going on. I think we have to encourage the idea that you’re allowed to think things. I have thought a great many stupid things over the years, and I can tell you that there’s not one stupid thing that I ever thought where I changed my mind because someone shouted at me or threatened to kill me. On the other hand, having great discussions with good friends, possibly over a drink, has definitely changed my mind and made me try to do better. You’re allowed to do better, but we have to let people do better '

The View from the Cheap Seats is a long book, but most of the articles in it are short.  I will be savouring it for some time to come.  I will probably agree with him most of the time, but I am confident that I don't agree with him I need have no fear that he will send someone round to sort me out...

108 comments:

  1. If only everyone thought that way. Too many do want to maim and threaten. Almost impossible to state our beliefs these days.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alex J. Cavanaugh: It is reassuring (to me) to hear that anyone feels that way. None of the shouting strikes me as reasonable...

      Delete
  2. I agree with you..................

    ReplyDelete
  3. A great exercise I often did with students who had opposing positions on a topic was to split them in pairs and have them listen to the other's position and paraphrase what the other said before they state their own position. It was amazing how the exercise affected the students, a respect for each other and the other position. Sometimes they even came together on a position. Do people listen to each other today? If we did, many of our problems would be resolved...at least that's my contention.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Marie Smith: I really like that approach. Listening is a severely underrated skill. Harder than just waiting to restate your own case. And worth the effort.

      Delete
  4. I like Marie's paraphrasing, there have been many who have unfriended me because of my political views because I don't agree with them and now I see if they can't even discuss differences with me they they are the ones who are rigid in their views and non accepting, even though they purport to be the ones who are so accepting of everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Linda Starr: I don't agree with anyone (including myself) all of the time. I am sorry you have lost some (rigid) friends though.

      Delete
  5. I sure hope he is right about the guns. The thing is, most of those with guns are the bullies. Bullies often win.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Birdie: I hope he is right too. And am cheered to learn how many people hope he is right. An idea which hopefully will gain momentum.

      Delete
  6. I agree about the guns, too, and like Marie's approach...if only that would work with politicians and the media...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. e: Fingers and toes crossed. Sadly the politicians and the media give us what they believe we want. Which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...

      Delete
  7. I couldn't agree more! I actually saw this book in my favourite bookshop yesterday, and put it on my 'To Read' list as soon as I got home. Looks like I might have to buy it!
    A friend described herself to me as having "a constant feeling of nameless dread." That exactly describes how I feel.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alexia: Buy it. It is excellent. Those feelings of nameless dread affect too many of us. Way too many.

      Delete
  8. Fear is what is ruling us and it is stoked by those who want the power. History, unfortunately, repeats itself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Starting Over, Accepting Changes - Maybe: We are a slow-learning species aren't we?

      Delete
  9. Replies
    1. Sandra Cox: And talented too. And conservatively speaking I agree with him 1000000 per cent on the value of reading too.

      Delete
    2. Indeed.
      I liked the 'ideas move fast'. Mine move so quickly they're sometimes gone before I grasp them. grin.

      Delete
    3. Sandra Cox: My ideas are not only fast but slippery.

      Delete
  10. I will get that book, probably on my Kindle so I can savor it. While I was reading this post, the news just informed me of the terrorist shootings and bombings at the Ataturk airport, where I was a year ago. That and Brexit and Trump have made me very, very scared. Sending you hugs so I can have one, too. :-(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DJan: Of course you can have a hug. Many hugs. Himself has been to Turkey a number of times. When he wakes up I know the news from there is going to hurt.
      Let me know what you think of Gaiman's work please. I love it, but may be prejudiced and biased.

      Delete
  11. I'm OK with keeping to my own corner, especially since getting out and about is less easy all the time. I am not pleased with the anger and hate that streams from so many corners. Kindness is so much easier. My mother used to advise dealing with unkind people, kill them with kindness. It works.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joanne Noragon: Kindness is always a winner. On both sides.

      Delete
  12. I don't agree that guns are the enemy. The problem is those who misuse them and obtain them when they should not own one. Just like anything, guns or knives are a tool neither good nor bad. It may appear that those with guns are bullies, but not all are. I often feel bullied by those who oppose owning guns.

    I do agree that good people are afraid to voice their thoughts (ideas) due to retaliation from any number of groups. I am so disappointed in our choice of presidential candidates in the US this time, that I'm not sure how I can even vote.

    Finally, what is happening in the world is not news to God. He wrote about it a long time ago.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. T. Powell Coltrin: Thank you for your thoughtful response. Guns are indeed a tool. And the ready use of them is I believe a symptom. A symptom of precisely the things which Gaiman covered in the last piece I quoted. Guns/violence/shouting are replacing real conversations. Which I think is a mistake.

      Delete
  13. We live in a world where everyone believes anyone with a differing view is a threat, a bully, and insulting, when in fact it is just a different opinion. I have no answers to any of it. If I did I would sell it for billions of dollars and give most away, but then people would be pissed with me about where I did or did not give it. I guess it is a good thing I don't have the answers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anne in the kitchen: Yes. And that is why Gaiman's words spoke so loudly to me. We need to have conversations. Which involves listening. Not easy. And I certainly don't have the answers either. All I can do is behave as ethically as I can myself...

      Delete
    2. Conversations. I can do those online, sort of. But face to face? In real life? Impossible. I was raised to be quiet and not ask questions, do as I'm told. Which is fine when you're under ten, but doesn't work so well when you carry it into adulthood as I have. I have opinions and ideas, but find it impossible to discuss or explain them.

      Delete
    3. River: I am often quiet too. (When I am not being too noisy). I don't shout though. And am confident you don't either.

      Delete
  14. The world is in such a sorry place; humans are in such a sorry state.

    People will find a way of killing each other with guns or without guns. Daily we hear of deaths here in this country by stabbings. Humans are their own worst enemy.

    Answers...I don't have them. I wish I did...but even if I did...would anyone listen? Would the problems be solved? I do now the answers to these two questions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lee: No easy answers from me either. However, I do believe that big things can come from small beginnings.

      Delete
  15. I wonder EC if human beings are losing the power of language and that is why they shout or use guns and other weapons to get their ideas across?
    Phil said to me only this morning when he heard that Putin is endeavouring to gather more power "Mimsie, we have seen the best of it." "Yes," said I, "but remember when we go we leave family behind and my fear is for them". What sort of world are we leaving to our grandchildren and great-grandchildren?
    I am making a note of that book as I am sure if it is available Phil would be interested in reading it. Lately he has been some of my non-fiction which is unusual for him so this book might just suit him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mimsie: I wish I knew. We seem to take the quick option, even knowing that no good will come of it. The View from the Cheap Seats has only recently been released and should be available. I hope the Phil likes it.

      Delete
  16. I almost never read non-fiction, but I'm going to find this at my library, which has recently re-opened after a modernising make-over. How many pages is it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. River: It is over 500 pages. Lots of small articles, but the book is substantial. Hopefully the library does have it, though it has only just been released.

      Delete
    2. Yikes! but small articles might be manageable. I'll wait a while before I ask for it, let everyone else have their turn first.

      Delete
  17. A recent 'white power' rally (spurred by the Brexit vote?) in our state Capitol was quashed by counter demonstrators. Unfortunately, the scene escalated quickly to violence. Cops were on hand, but couldn't break up the melee until after a handful of people were injured. I'm glad that anti-facists were there to counter-demonstrate, but saddened by the fact that things devolved so quickly into a dangerous mess.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bea: I am saddened too. And wish it was rare.

      Delete
  18. it sounds like a book that describes the world alright, sadly

    ReplyDelete
  19. I'm a huge fan of his fiction! I see I will have to get his non-fiction too. Always struck me as an eminently sensible chap from his interviews. Too much shouting going on and too many guns/weapons floating around, and too many people think that these solve the problems, yikes!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nilanjana Bose: I am a huge fan of his fiction too. And the interviews I have seen/read strike me as very sensible. I like for example that he says a book which gets a person reading is a good book, and is not a snob. And that he admits to personal failures and failings...

      Delete
  20. I am not going to stay in my corner out of fear. Then again, I am too old for physical confrontation. From my view anything said to the right is met with gnashing of teeth and THEIR opinion of what God wants. End of discussion there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Practical Parsimony: As I read Gaiman's words he was saying that there is too much shouting on all sides. He didn't target any side in particular and certainly didn't assign 'right' to any. We all need to listen. And think. And talk. And think some more.

      Delete
  21. Replies
    1. Margaret Adamson: Yes. And some tolerance and empathy don't go astray either.

      Delete
  22. Dear EC
    I am also a fan of Neil Gaiman's fiction but a stranger to his non-fiction, which is something I need to rectify. The world has always been a scary place down throughout the centuries, due to humans, but it is still a beautiful place too. If only those in power would stop and listen and think and appreciate more...
    Best wishes
    Ellie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ellie Foster: His non-fiction is as good, and as varied as his fiction. Or I think so. And I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

      Delete
  23. Thanks EC - lots of wisdom there. I think this deserves a read. I'll check the library for this book.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lynn: I hope you find it. And there are other gems in it too. Did you know that there is a new Karin Slaughter about to come out? From the Will Trent series? Woo Hoo.

      Delete
    2. Yes - I'm on an email list for Karin, so I get notices. It's time for another Will Trent offering - I'm excited, too!

      Delete
  24. Thank you for the recommendation EC, and the thoughts on ideas.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. carol in cairns: My pleasure. And I love his thoughts about the power of ideas.

      Delete
  25. Its nice to know there is one person out there that won't come sort you or me out.
    It has always seemed to me that intelligent thoughts are whispers and aggression are screams.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sonya Ann: I agree about the whispers versus the shouts.

      Delete
  26. I have thought many stupid things... I love it. A soft answer turneth away wrath. He's right. People are afraid to say things these days. I stay away from politics and 80% else of what I want to say in social media because I know people will freak out. Which is lame. *shrugs* I guess we're all too connected on a front.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Crystal Collier: I have certainly thought many stupid things. And may still be thinking stupid things. Often when I don't agree I simply stay quiet. I try hard not to shout. And I don't do death threats. However tempting.

      Delete
  27. I will be looking for this book; thank you for the review. I would add that associating with good people goes a long way to helping people understand about self-change. And that I think the media has a lot to answer for in making us think things are worse than they are. There aren't too many headlines that tell of good things. Now I will get off my soapbox :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. jenny_o: There is always room for you and your soap box here. Just as there is room for kindness and empathy.
      Not a review, because I haven't finished it yet. I expect that some of the pieces in it are ones I will revisit too.

      Delete
  28. It sounds like something everyone should read. I am no genius so I don't know how to make people stop hurting, killing, or hating other people. I wish I did.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jono: I too am not a genius. And certainly don't have the answers. Except that I think killing people is very rarely the 'right' answer. Possibly never. I don't think dead people change their minds/attitudes. And most of them have family and friends.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  29. I too am a huge fan of Neil Gaiman. My son has read a few of his books also. He often places much wisdom in is children's literature. My son likes how he is not overly pushy with his message. He gives room to ponder. Great post!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ginger Dawn Harman: I am going to have to track down his children's literature. I have really liked most of his work. Really, really liked it.

      Delete
  30. yes, yes, yes.

    what is wrong with humanity? we seem to be getting worse and now there’s hardly a corner of the world which does not pander to the most hateful ideas.

    It’s enough to make me despair, but then I come across a kind person and I have hope again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Friko: He is talking for a lot of us isn't he? And I hope that more and more people are listening. Kindness and hope often go hand in hand for me.

      Delete
  31. I've found that most of the sheep who are shouting don't understand the words they're uttering anyway. It's sad to see so many who don't take the time to think for themselves. The propaganda machine is well-oiled on all sides.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. River Fairchild: You are so right about the propaganda machine. And the lack of thought.

      Delete
  32. I do hope that ideas will win out over guns, and soon. It is indeed a frightening world. One that seems safest locked behind our doors. Not in fear so much as in pursuit of living another day. Sad that our world has come to this, and yet the world of ST:TNG promises so much more peace and is so far away.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Carolyn McBride: Fingers and toes crossed. Ideas have brought us so much. Good and bad.

      Delete
  33. It is a sad state of affairs at times with frightening results. You make some very good points.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mason Canyon: Neil Gaiman articulates a lot of what I think better than I could ever hope to do.

      Delete
  34. I just finished one of his books but I've never read his non-fiction. I will look for this one.
    R

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rick Watson: Welcome and thank you for commenting. Which of his books did you just finish? And I do hope you like The View From the Cheap Seats.

      Delete
  35. Right now, my books are historical non-fiction, poetry, short stories with no political agenda....I feel a need to protect my mind and keep level headed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Susan Kane: Sometimes we all need to resort to comfort reading. And with your move coming up, I am surprised you have time to read anything.

      Delete
  36. I totally understand. It's really terrifying if you just watch and listen. Like it's a nightmare but it's real!

    This really needs to stop.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I love Neil, he's not just a fine writer, he's a fine human too.

    I seem to recall a quote from an unknown author which is a curse, "May you live in interesting times". And by the Small Gods...we do...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All Consuming: Neil is one of my heroes. That curse is a particularly vicious one isn't it? I was taught that it is Chinese - but where-ever it comes from it is nasty. And here.

      Delete
  38. I don't know about interesting...some of the rhetoric I hear is so incredibly immature, uninformed, narrow-minded, and just plain hateful. It's disappointing and frightening. I hope Gaiman is right, too, but I'm afraid it will be a while.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mshatch: Disappointing and frightening is right. However (which is why that curse is so vicious) it isn't dull. At least people are talking. And some day there will be less shouting and more listening. I hope.

      Delete
  39. I hadn't heard of this author before. There are many times when I think of Leunig's cartoon about shutting out the news and focussing on birds. But having said that I'm very engaged in the political process and would love to see more open, ethical, conviction politicians

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kim: The Leunig cartoon I most often think about at the moment shows a man looking out of a barred window in a lunatic asylum. Smiling broadly as he looks at the people, the cars, and the pollution below.

      Delete
  40. As far as the battle between guns and ideas....it's pretty shaky over here....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sandra Cox: But people are talking about it. Too loudly and not listening to each other, but they are talking. Which is a start.

      Delete
  41. I absolutely adore Neil Gaiman- but have not read The View From the Cheap Seats. On my list now. I enjoyed the quotes you shared. I hope change is on the way. We need positive thinking and kindness to lead the way.
    ~Jess

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DMS ~ Jess: The View from the Cheap Seats is good. Excellent in fact. And on a wide range of topics. I am dipping in and reading an article or two each night.

      Delete
  42. We are an animal population who does not believe the same rules apply to us as with animal populations. We are overcrowded and overcrowding leads to resource envy, stress, anger and violence. With humans, we often attach beliefs to justify violence. In the end, we are a wildlife population, spreading in dense colonies, ravaging the earth, consuming resources, warring over territories, tribal expansion. Give peace a chance, neuter everyone. I am going to read that book!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Strayer: Yes. And we too often forget we are animals and have misplaced ideas about our 'superiority'.

      Delete
  43. Not sure or it or the area I live in (North Idaho) people seem to have a hang up about guns.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. peppylady (Dora): Sadly there are a lot of violent hang-ups. World wide.

      Delete
  44. This book has a lot of meat to digest when reading it. Have to read slowly, give the thoughts time to sink in.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Susan Kane: You are right. At my current rate of reading an article or two a night the book will keep me occupied/entertained/learning for some time. Which is not a problem.

      Delete
  45. We should make Gaiman President of the World!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lady Fi: I am pretty certain that he would refuse that dubious honour.

      Delete
  46. The older I get, the more I appreciate the merits of being forced to debate BOTH sides of an issue when we were in school. I hated having to defend positions contrary to my personal beliefs, but those exercises taught me to have an open mind that's willing to LISTEN to other points of view. I wish all of today's world leaders had been taught to debate like that, too.

    Gaiman's ideas all sound spot on to me. Brilliant, actually. What's astounding is that that sort of thinking isn't more universal and considered to be common sense. Maybe some day...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Susan: Hopefully some day... And some day soon.

      Delete
  47. I am a recent convert to Neil Gaiman but am impressed with his world view. He's quite brilliant and I am glad I have a lot more of his work to look forward to.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kathleen Valentine: Welcome and thank you. I found Neil Gaiman relatively late, and have a lot more of his work to savour. Still loving The View from the Cheap Seats too.

      Delete
  48. I hope ideas beat guns too. I most certainly do. I don't understand the hate, esp. when it's over a different point of view. I hope I never do.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mail4rosey: Hate over a different view point sounds a bit silly doesn't it?

      Delete
  49. I agree that it's an ugly sight out there...especially if we view it all throught the
    fairly jaded lens of the media moguls. Dark and graceless. I have a lot of hope in all of the small and not-so-small movements going on throughout the world towards social justice and change. I don't think we'll get where we need to go on the back of government.

    I wonder if that's similar to what he is saying; maybe movements are ideas with feet:)

    Good reading to you, friend,
    Jennifer

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jennifer Richardson: I love the idea of movements being ideas with feet. So much.

      Delete
  50. “....I do not have the right to kill you, maim you, hurt you or take away your liberty or property because I find your ideas threatening or insulting or downright disgusting.”

    I would agree, but it’s not an idea that’s popular in such politically correct places as the U.S. The hospital where Peggy worked encouraged its employees to report instances in which another employee said something that might be offensive to anyone, and the hospital wanted this information even if the offending statement was made away from work in the person’s own home. It is in reaction to this kind of thing that a lot of people support Trump. Political correctness has advanced so far here that a lot of people are ready to explode, and I am one of them, only I don’t see Trump—or Clinton, for that matter—as the solution to anything.

    Yesterday, Peggy and I were watching a movie from the thirties that included a period cartoon. When we clicked on the cartoon, a disclaimer came up saying that the cartoon contained racist material, and then went on to say how wrong this was, and how badly the DVD producer felt about it. Jeez, just show me the damn cartoon minus the sermon, how about it?

    You’re right, it’s a mess the world over. I just heard about five cops being killed by snipers, and I think it’s people like Obama who condemn police shootings without even knowing what really happened who are to blame. This is another reason why Trump is so popular. If you support the police, the Democratic Party is not for you because it’s filled with politically correct people who don’t appear to ever entertain the thought that, just maybe, the cops are ever in the right if a black person ends up dead.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Snowbrush: Peggy's workplace wanted to control what people said at home? I find that scary. And almost unbelievable that they feel it is their right to do that.
      No easy answers. Lots of questions. I think a starting point is when people think for themselves rather than going down the blind acceptance path.

      Delete
    2. “Snowbrush: Peggy's workplace wanted to control what people said at home?”

      They wanted employees to rat one another out for making “bigoted” (i.e. politically incorrect) statements anywhere, and although she had a union, I have no thought that the union would have been much help. PC is nothing more than left-wing totalitarianism that masquerades as respect for differences, although it clearly has no respect for anyone who doesn’t share its values. It instills a climate of fear by which people are obliged to weigh what they say before they say it. The bottom line is that people at either end of the political spectrum want to force everyone else to kowtow to them. There’s really a lot to be said for moderates.

      Delete